Podcast 88: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

The 3 Guys Podcast

Recorded on 11/17/2022

For Honor, For Legacy, For Wakanda! In this podcast we review Marvel’s Black Panther: Wakanda Forever starring Letitia Wright, Lupita Nyong’o, Danai Gurira, Winston Duke, Florence Kasumba, Dominique Thorne, Michaela Coel, Tenoch Huerta, Martin Freeman, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Angela Bassett and directed by Ryan Coogler. WARNING: There will be SPOILERS!

The 3 Guys Rating

3.8/5

Notes From The Show

  • Quick Synopsis

  • Released: November 11, 2022

    Based On The Comic

    Book By:  Stan Lee & Jack Kirby

    Directed By: Ryan Coogler

    Screenplay By: Ryan Coogler & Joe Robert Cole

    Stars:  Letitia Wright, Lupita Nyong’o, Danai Gurira, Winston Duke, Florence Kasumba, Dominique Thorne, Michaela Coel, Tenoch Huerta, Martin Freeman, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Angela Bassettand a bunch of other actors.

    Plot:  The people of Wakanda fight to protect their home from intervening world powers as they mourn the death of King T’Challa.

    Taglines: For Honor, For Legacy, For Wakanda!

    How did this movie do?
    Budget: $250 Million
    Box Office: Earned $331 Million Worldwide in it’s opening weekend

  • Spin-off

    • A Disney+ series Ironheart will serve as a direct sequel to Wakanda Forever, with Thorne returning to reprise her role as Riri Williams / Ironheart in the project.  In it, Anthony Ramos as Parker Robbins / The Hood will play the villain. Filming is complete and scheduled to appear on Disney+ in late 2023.
  • Comic Book

  • Black Panther:

    • The Black Panther was created in July 1966, two months before the founding of the Black Panther Party.

    • The character first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 (cover-dated July 1966) in the Silver Age of Comic Books.

    • In the comics, Shuri takes over as the Black Panther from T’Challa. This is referenced in the film when she appears to challenge her brother for the throne.

    • In the comics, Wakanda is eventually destroyed by Namor.

    • The Midnight Angels began as an elite Dora Milaji strike force created originally to deal with Doctor Doom.

    • Riri Williams, aka Ironheart, in the comics, built a suit that rivaled Tony Starks (she reversed engineered Iron Man’s armor).  So much so that he endorsed her as a superhero.  When Tony died during Civil War II, his consciousness became the AI of her suit. She first appeared in Invincible Iron Man back in 2016.

    Namor:

    • The king of Talokan, an ancient civilization of underwater dwelling people, who refer to him as the feathered serpent god K’uk’ulkan. Huerta said Namor decides to get involved in the surface world after T’Challa publicly reveals the truth of Wakanda at the end of the first film, which consequently puts Talokan in “jeopardy”, leading Namor and his people to “take action to protect themselves”. Huerta also confirmed that the character is a mutant as in the comics. Huerta called Namor an anti-hero, explaining that it was important to both him and Coogler to humanize the character by making his motivations understandable despite him having an antagonistic role in the film. Coogler was enthused to include Namor’s “really unique features” from the comics, including his ankle wings and pointy ears. He also described the character as “kind of an asshole, kind of romantic, and just incredibly powerful”. Huerta learned a Mayan language for the role, as well as how to swim.

    • In the film, Namor is named after a Spanish phrase “El Niño Sin Amor” (The Boy Without Love). In the comics, Namor is Atlantean for “avenging son.” The actual name comes from “Roman” written backwards.

    • Namor first appeared publicly in Marvel Comics #1 (cover-dated 1939), which was the first comic book from Timely Comics, the 1930s–1940s predecessor of Marvel Comics. During that period, known to historians and fans as the Golden Age of Comic Books, the Sub-Mariner was one of Timely’s top three characters, along with Captain America and the original Human Torch. Moreover, Namor has also been described as the first comic book antihero.

    • Namor the Sub-Mariner was Marvel’s very first superhero alongside the Angel and the android Human Torch. Writer/artist Bill Everett (later co-created Daredevil) was a fan of anything nautical and sea-related, and he created Namor as the water-based opposite to the Torch. Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s 1798 poem “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” was an influence on the character, and the name “Namor” was conceived by writing “Roman” backwards. He first appeared in the unpublished Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly #1 (Apr. 1939) before making his official debut in Marvel Comics #1 (Oct. 1939), the first publication by Marvel’s predecessor Timely Comics.

    • Aquaman made his debut in 1941 in the anthology series More Fun Comics

    • Referred to as “Marvel’s first mutant” because, while the majority of his observed superhuman powers come from the fact that he is a hybrid of human and Atlantean DNA
  • Trivia

    • Tenoch Huerta, who plays the ruler of an underwater kingdom, didn’t know how to swim. When Ryan Coogler offered him the role and asked about his swimming skills, Huerta simply replied, “I’ve never drowned before.” He took swimming lessons afterwards in preparation for the role.

    • Chadwick Boseman’s brother, Derrick Boseman has spoken out against the idea of retiring the character of T’Challa rather than recasting. He believes that his brother wouldn’t have been so egotistical as to wanting the character to die with him and would instead want the character’s journey to continue.

    • Chadwick Boseman initially signed up for a 5 picture deal with Marvel Studios back in 2014. This film would have been his final contractual appearance in live action as Black Panther in the MCU.

    • The actors cast as Talocan learned a Mayan language for the film.

    • According to Hannah Beachler, the teeth on the Talocan throne room belongs to a megalodon.

    • Ryan Coogler has stated that making this film without Chadwick Boseman is the hardest thing he’s ever done.

    • Tenoch Huerta (Namor) received the first ever “introducing” credit for a Marvel Studios film, a credit that usually indicates an actor is making their film debut.

    • Daniel Kaluuya was set to return as W’Kabi but dropped out due to scheduling conflicts with Nope (2022).

    • Ryan Coogler nearly stepped back from this movie and filmmaking as a whole after Chadwick Boseman’s death, due to how emotionally painful it was losing his friend/hero. However, after taking his final conversations with the man into consideration, Coogler decided that it was best to keep moving forward with the project.

    • Before being cast as Ironheart, Dominique Thorne initially auditioned to play Shuri back in Black Panther (2018).

    • The Talocans are heavily inspired by Mesoamerican culture, primarily Aztec culture and the Aztec water god Tlaloc.

    • In the Marvel Comics, Namor is ruler of the underwater realm of Atlantis. The filmmakers changed the name to avoid connections/comparisons with other versions of Atlantis (notably DC Comics’ version and its own superhero king Aquaman (2018)), and so in the film the realm is named Talocan, after the Aztec underwater realm of Tlalocan.

    • On July 23rd, 2022, Kevin Feige announced at San Diego Comic-Con that the film will mark the culmination of Phase 4 of the MCU.

    • The 30th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

    • The cast took lessons in swimming and breath training for the film.

    • The concept of a Mesoamerican underwater kingdom is based on the concept of Aztlan, a mythical home that originated the Aztec people and was said to be another name for Atlantis.

    • It was announced that the role of T’Challa would not be digitally recreated and not recast, out of respect for Chadwick Boseman’s legacy.

    • With the runtime of 161 minutes (2hrs 41 mins) this will be the second longest film in the MCU behind Avengers: Endgame (2019) runtime of 181 minutes (3hrs 1min) and the longest solo MCU film, dethroning Eternals (2021).

    • Dorothy Steel’s final film role before her death in 2021.

    • The film was supposed to release in July 2022. However after a major rescheduling in 2021, Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) took that slot, while the Black Panther sequel took the November 2022 release slot of The Marvels (2023) when the Captain Marvel (2019) sequel was delayed to February 2023.

    • Due to the extensive amount of underwater filming, costume designer Ruth E. Carter had to test/design certain Talocan costumes by submerging them in a pool and seeing how they moved in the water.

    • Director Ryan Coogler revealed that the sequel’s original story was going to focus on T’Challa after the events from Avengers: Endgame (2019) with Chadwick Boseman reprising his role and stated that Namor was always the film’s antagonist.

    • Winston Duke had campaigned for his character, M’Baku, to be the sequel’s main villain.

    • Michael Phelps, Daniel Dae Kim, Brian Tee, Dwayne Johnson, Henry Golding and David Boreanaz were all considered for Namor. Before being cast as Shang-Chi, Simu Liu commented back in a 2018 Q&A that he was interested in playing either Sunfire or Namor the Sub-Mariner in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

    • Live-action debut of Namor the Sub-Mariner. There had been numerous attempts to adapt the character to film and television, all of which ultimately stalled. Marvel Comics founder Martin Goodman began developing a live-action Namor TV series in the 1950s with Richard Egan eyed to star, but nothing came of it. Another Namor series was planned in the 1970s, but it was dropped due to similarities with Man from Atlantis (1977), which, ironically, was inspired by Namor. Development of a Namor film began in 1997 and spent the next two decades in development hell, with numerous writers and directors attached over the years. Universal bought Namor’s film rights in 2002, which only further complicated adaptation attempts over time.

    • Hannah Beachler cites the artwork of artist Jack Kirby, the fantasy film Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) and the sea film Jaws (1975) as an influence on the production design.

    • The first MCU sequel not to have the same titular superhero character as its predecessor, due to the death of Chadwick Boseman in 2020. (Although, Hulk was played by Edward Norton in the first MCU solo outing, while Mark Ruffalo took over the role of Hulk in The Avengers and all subsequent MCU films featuring him, but none of these releases include Hulk in the title).

    • Winston Duke improvised the “you baldheaded demon!” line.

    • One of the items of news running along the bottom of news scenes refers to Scott Lang and his book, “Look Out for the Little Guy”, a plot point in the following Marvel movie Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023).

    • For this movie the Marvel Studios intro features exclusively Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa to pay tribute for him. This is the first MCU intro with no music.

    • Winston Duke improvised the “bald-headed demon” line to Danai Gurira’s Okoye.

    • Michael Waldron said there were plans to include Namor in the Illuminati in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022), since he was a founding member of the group in the comics, but these plans were dropped.

    • Rihanna was being eyed on the studio for the role of Princess Zanda, the ruler of the African nation of Narobia. She instead did the song “Life Me Up” for the film.

    • King T’Challa’s son in the final scenes name being Toussaint towards the end. May be an homage by director Ryan Coogler to pay his respects to former General Toussiant Louverture who fought the French in 1804 with then colonial slaves to help secure Haiti’s independence from them. Just as The Black Panther has fought to protect Wakanda

    • The license plate of the prisoner transport carrying Everett Ross reads “CB112976” – Chadwick Boseman’s birthdate is November 29th 1976.

Released: November 11, 2022

Based On The Comic

Book By:  Stan Lee & Jack Kirby

Directed By: Ryan Coogler

Screenplay By: Ryan Coogler & Joe Robert Cole

Stars:  Letitia Wright, Lupita Nyong’o, Danai Gurira, Winston Duke, Florence Kasumba, Dominique Thorne, Michaela Coel, Tenoch Huerta, Martin Freeman, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Angela Bassettand a bunch of other actors.

Plot:  The people of Wakanda fight to protect their home from intervening world powers as they mourn the death of King T’Challa.

Taglines: For Honor, For Legacy, For Wakanda!

How did this movie do?
Budget: $250 Million
Box Office: Earned $331 Million Worldwide in it’s opening weekend

  • A Disney+ series Ironheart will serve as a direct sequel to Wakanda Forever, with Thorne returning to reprise her role as Riri Williams / Ironheart in the project.  In it, Anthony Ramos as Parker Robbins / The Hood will play the villain. Filming is complete and scheduled to appear on Disney+ in late 2023.

Black Panther:

  • The Black Panther was created in July 1966, two months before the founding of the Black Panther Party.

  • The character first appeared in Fantastic Four #52 (cover-dated July 1966) in the Silver Age of Comic Books.

  • In the comics, Shuri takes over as the Black Panther from T’Challa. This is referenced in the film when she appears to challenge her brother for the throne.

  • In the comics, Wakanda is eventually destroyed by Namor.

  • The Midnight Angels began as an elite Dora Milaji strike force created originally to deal with Doctor Doom.

  • Riri Williams, aka Ironheart, in the comics, built a suit that rivaled Tony Starks (she reversed engineered Iron Man’s armor).  So much so that he endorsed her as a superhero.  When Tony died during Civil War II, his consciousness became the AI of her suit. She first appeared in Invincible Iron Man back in 2016.

Namor:

  • The king of Talokan, an ancient civilization of underwater dwelling people, who refer to him as the feathered serpent god K’uk’ulkan. Huerta said Namor decides to get involved in the surface world after T’Challa publicly reveals the truth of Wakanda at the end of the first film, which consequently puts Talokan in “jeopardy”, leading Namor and his people to “take action to protect themselves”. Huerta also confirmed that the character is a mutant as in the comics. Huerta called Namor an anti-hero, explaining that it was important to both him and Coogler to humanize the character by making his motivations understandable despite him having an antagonistic role in the film. Coogler was enthused to include Namor’s “really unique features” from the comics, including his ankle wings and pointy ears. He also described the character as “kind of an asshole, kind of romantic, and just incredibly powerful”. Huerta learned a Mayan language for the role, as well as how to swim.

  • In the film, Namor is named after a Spanish phrase “El Niño Sin Amor” (The Boy Without Love). In the comics, Namor is Atlantean for “avenging son.” The actual name comes from “Roman” written backwards.

  • Namor first appeared publicly in Marvel Comics #1 (cover-dated 1939), which was the first comic book from Timely Comics, the 1930s–1940s predecessor of Marvel Comics. During that period, known to historians and fans as the Golden Age of Comic Books, the Sub-Mariner was one of Timely’s top three characters, along with Captain America and the original Human Torch. Moreover, Namor has also been described as the first comic book antihero.

  • Namor the Sub-Mariner was Marvel’s very first superhero alongside the Angel and the android Human Torch. Writer/artist Bill Everett (later co-created Daredevil) was a fan of anything nautical and sea-related, and he created Namor as the water-based opposite to the Torch. Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s 1798 poem “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” was an influence on the character, and the name “Namor” was conceived by writing “Roman” backwards. He first appeared in the unpublished Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly #1 (Apr. 1939) before making his official debut in Marvel Comics #1 (Oct. 1939), the first publication by Marvel’s predecessor Timely Comics.

  • Aquaman made his debut in 1941 in the anthology series More Fun Comics

  • Referred to as “Marvel’s first mutant” because, while the majority of his observed superhuman powers come from the fact that he is a hybrid of human and Atlantean DNA
  • Tenoch Huerta, who plays the ruler of an underwater kingdom, didn’t know how to swim. When Ryan Coogler offered him the role and asked about his swimming skills, Huerta simply replied, “I’ve never drowned before.” He took swimming lessons afterwards in preparation for the role.

  • Chadwick Boseman’s brother, Derrick Boseman has spoken out against the idea of retiring the character of T’Challa rather than recasting. He believes that his brother wouldn’t have been so egotistical as to wanting the character to die with him and would instead want the character’s journey to continue.

  • Chadwick Boseman initially signed up for a 5 picture deal with Marvel Studios back in 2014. This film would have been his final contractual appearance in live action as Black Panther in the MCU.

  • The actors cast as Talocan learned a Mayan language for the film.

  • According to Hannah Beachler, the teeth on the Talocan throne room belongs to a megalodon.

  • Ryan Coogler has stated that making this film without Chadwick Boseman is the hardest thing he’s ever done.

  • Tenoch Huerta (Namor) received the first ever “introducing” credit for a Marvel Studios film, a credit that usually indicates an actor is making their film debut.

  • Daniel Kaluuya was set to return as W’Kabi but dropped out due to scheduling conflicts with Nope (2022).

  • Ryan Coogler nearly stepped back from this movie and filmmaking as a whole after Chadwick Boseman’s death, due to how emotionally painful it was losing his friend/hero. However, after taking his final conversations with the man into consideration, Coogler decided that it was best to keep moving forward with the project.

  • Before being cast as Ironheart, Dominique Thorne initially auditioned to play Shuri back in Black Panther (2018).

  • The Talocans are heavily inspired by Mesoamerican culture, primarily Aztec culture and the Aztec water god Tlaloc.

  • In the Marvel Comics, Namor is ruler of the underwater realm of Atlantis. The filmmakers changed the name to avoid connections/comparisons with other versions of Atlantis (notably DC Comics’ version and its own superhero king Aquaman (2018)), and so in the film the realm is named Talocan, after the Aztec underwater realm of Tlalocan.

  • On July 23rd, 2022, Kevin Feige announced at San Diego Comic-Con that the film will mark the culmination of Phase 4 of the MCU.

  • The 30th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

  • The cast took lessons in swimming and breath training for the film.

  • The concept of a Mesoamerican underwater kingdom is based on the concept of Aztlan, a mythical home that originated the Aztec people and was said to be another name for Atlantis.

  • It was announced that the role of T’Challa would not be digitally recreated and not recast, out of respect for Chadwick Boseman’s legacy.

  • With the runtime of 161 minutes (2hrs 41 mins) this will be the second longest film in the MCU behind Avengers: Endgame (2019) runtime of 181 minutes (3hrs 1min) and the longest solo MCU film, dethroning Eternals (2021).

  • Dorothy Steel’s final film role before her death in 2021.

  • The film was supposed to release in July 2022. However after a major rescheduling in 2021, Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) took that slot, while the Black Panther sequel took the November 2022 release slot of The Marvels (2023) when the Captain Marvel (2019) sequel was delayed to February 2023.

  • Due to the extensive amount of underwater filming, costume designer Ruth E. Carter had to test/design certain Talocan costumes by submerging them in a pool and seeing how they moved in the water.

  • Director Ryan Coogler revealed that the sequel’s original story was going to focus on T’Challa after the events from Avengers: Endgame (2019) with Chadwick Boseman reprising his role and stated that Namor was always the film’s antagonist.

  • Winston Duke had campaigned for his character, M’Baku, to be the sequel’s main villain.

  • Michael Phelps, Daniel Dae Kim, Brian Tee, Dwayne Johnson, Henry Golding and David Boreanaz were all considered for Namor. Before being cast as Shang-Chi, Simu Liu commented back in a 2018 Q&A that he was interested in playing either Sunfire or Namor the Sub-Mariner in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

  • Live-action debut of Namor the Sub-Mariner. There had been numerous attempts to adapt the character to film and television, all of which ultimately stalled. Marvel Comics founder Martin Goodman began developing a live-action Namor TV series in the 1950s with Richard Egan eyed to star, but nothing came of it. Another Namor series was planned in the 1970s, but it was dropped due to similarities with Man from Atlantis (1977), which, ironically, was inspired by Namor. Development of a Namor film began in 1997 and spent the next two decades in development hell, with numerous writers and directors attached over the years. Universal bought Namor’s film rights in 2002, which only further complicated adaptation attempts over time.

  • Hannah Beachler cites the artwork of artist Jack Kirby, the fantasy film Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) and the sea film Jaws (1975) as an influence on the production design.

  • The first MCU sequel not to have the same titular superhero character as its predecessor, due to the death of Chadwick Boseman in 2020. (Although, Hulk was played by Edward Norton in the first MCU solo outing, while Mark Ruffalo took over the role of Hulk in The Avengers and all subsequent MCU films featuring him, but none of these releases include Hulk in the title).

  • Winston Duke improvised the “you baldheaded demon!” line.

  • One of the items of news running along the bottom of news scenes refers to Scott Lang and his book, “Look Out for the Little Guy”, a plot point in the following Marvel movie Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023).

  • For this movie the Marvel Studios intro features exclusively Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa to pay tribute for him. This is the first MCU intro with no music.

  • Winston Duke improvised the “bald-headed demon” line to Danai Gurira’s Okoye.

  • Michael Waldron said there were plans to include Namor in the Illuminati in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022), since he was a founding member of the group in the comics, but these plans were dropped.

  • Rihanna was being eyed on the studio for the role of Princess Zanda, the ruler of the African nation of Narobia. She instead did the song “Life Me Up” for the film.

  • King T’Challa’s son in the final scenes name being Toussaint towards the end. May be an homage by director Ryan Coogler to pay his respects to former General Toussiant Louverture who fought the French in 1804 with then colonial slaves to help secure Haiti’s independence from them. Just as The Black Panther has fought to protect Wakanda

  • The license plate of the prisoner transport carrying Everett Ross reads “CB112976” – Chadwick Boseman’s birthdate is November 29th 1976.

About The Movie From IMDB

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | November 11, 2022 (United States) 7.3

Photos


See all photos >>

Videos


See all videos >>

Cast

...
Shuri
...
Nakia
...
Okoye
...
M'Baku
...
Ramonda
...
Namor
...
Everett Ross
...
Riri
...
Aneka
...
Attuma
...
Namora
...
River Tribe Elder
...
Border Tribe Elder
...
Merchant Tribe Elder
...
Mining Tribe Elder
...
Sope the Shaman
...
Zawavari

See full cast >>

Countries: United StatesLanguages: English, Spanish

Note: All images are property of their respected owners and used for editorial purposes.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | November 11, 2022 (United States) Summary:
Countries: United StatesLanguages: English, Spanish

Quotes

Ramonda: I am Queen of the most powerful nation in the world! And my entire family is gone! Have I not given everything?


Namor: Only the most broken people can be great leaders.


[the Sub-Mariner appears]

Ramonda: Stop right there! Who are you? And how did you get in here?

Namor: [looks around] This place is amazing. The air is pristine, and the water... My mother told me stories about a place like this, a protected land with people who never have to leave, who never have to change who they were. What reason do you have to reveal your secret to the world?

Ramonda: I am not in the habit of repeating myself! Who are you?

Namor: My people call me K'uk'ulkan. But my enemies call me Namor.


M'Baku: [talking about Namor] His people do not call him general or king. They call him K'uk'ulkan, the feather serpent god. Killing him will risk eternal war.


Okoye: [to Riri] You have two choices: you can come to Wakanda conscious, or unconscious.

Riri Williams: You need to be conscious of the way that you look! Walking around all in here with that ash on your head!


Okoye: A colonizer in chains. Now I have seen everything.


Nakia: [on T'Challa] To everyone, he was a king. But to me, he was everything.


M'Baku: [to Shuri] The world has taken away too much for you to still be considered a child.


Okoye: [whispers] Wakanda Forever!


Aneka: You hung up on the Queen.

Shuri: No, I hung up on my mom. There's a difference.


Namor: A Spanish man of faith cursed me as he died by my hand. He called me El Niño sin Amor, "the Child without Love". And I took my name from there, Namor. Because I have no love for the surface world.


N'Jadaka: T'Challa was truly noble. Are you going to be like him, or are you gonna take care of business?


Namor: Princess.

Shuri: No! I am the Black Panther, and I have come for retribution!


Namor: [points at Shuri] You are Queen now. In one week, I will return with my entire army!


M'Baku: The Black Panther lives!


Shuri: I would like to see your nation.

Namor: The pressure of the ocean will crush every bone in your body.

[beat]

Namor: Or you can wear a suit.


Riri Williams: Let's go!


[before going to war]

Nakia: [to Shuri] I want you to know that you have a home with me in Haiti, when this is over.

[pause]

Nakia: Shuri, the way things may be going, we may not have a home to go back to.


[water leaks into Wakanda]

Okoye: We are under attack!


Shuri: How did your people come to live under the sea?

Namor: How is never as important, as WHY.


M'Baku: [sees Namor] Fish-Man!


Okoye: [admiring Riri Williams] I like her!


Riri Williams: I'm not even a real character. I'm just a plot pooooooint!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *